In this episode of Digital Dominoes, host Angeline Corvaglia speaks with Heidi Saas, a privacy and technology lawyer, about the crucial need for protecting children’s digital privacy within school environments. They explore why Heidi’s turned her focus to becoming an advocate for data privacy in Edtech, discuss the hidden intricacies of Edtech tools, and highlight the importance of the involvement and education of both parents and kids to bring about positive change. The conversation underscores the challenges posed by unregulated data collection in schools, the lack of transparency from tech companies, and potential legal avenues for safeguarding children’s data. They also emphasize the collective efforts needed from parents, schools, and regulators to bring about positive change.
00:00 Introduction to the Edtech Privacy Parents Series
00:34 Meet Heidi Saas: Privacy Advocate and Parent
01:24 The Privacy Concerns in EdTech
02:10 The Hidden Data Flows and Opt-Out Struggles
04:22 Legal Loopholes and Data Monetization
05:26 The Fight for Transparency and Accountability
06:52 Collaborative Efforts for Change
11:35 Engaging Schools and Parents
17:50 Empowering the Next Generation
21:03 Conclusion and Call to Action
We can also recommend these articles that explain the issue of content and data sharing.
- Aimed at teens: What You Should Know About School Technology and Data Sharing – Data Girl and Friends
- Aimed at parents: Tech at School: Protecting Your Child’s Privacy – ANGELINE CORVAGLIA
Info on how to request information from schools
- USA: What is a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) and how do you make one https://www.foia.gov/how-to.html
In addition, we also recommend these resources:
- Me2B Alliance Product Testing Report on School Mobile Apps Student Data Sharing Behavior: https://internetsafetylabs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/school-apps-data-sharing-behavior-spotlight-report-final.pdf
- Edtech Law Center’s resources on issues with edtech: https://edtech.law/issues-with-edtech/
Transcript
The SHIELD Global Online Safety Conference will help people from all over the world because this is a worldwide problem which we're showing with these interviews. So Heidi, thank you so much for being here to tell your story. Can you tell us what triggered your edtech privacy passion?
hat the school was insisting [:tings. So I can't download a [:e so that you can claim your [:Well, that really bothered me because it means you already gave my data and my child's data to this app. I was opted into this by default.
Into a mental health app by the school? What's the logic in that?
our children and the parents.[:t the delta between the two, [:And they built these tools in such a way, you can look back through the marketing materials for these tools, where they're telling each other in the field, build these tools in a way that the parents have to get involved. It's crucial to get parental involvement, which sounds like a nice thing, but their motivation for getting parental involvement was just to collect behavioral data.
o these systems, so that the [:ecause of COPPA, which is an [:Schools aren't in there. So, the FERPA regulates schools. That's kind of the fiction that built this whole industry, and they haven't been called out on it because the Department of Education has not done any enforcement on the FERPA, so nobody knows about it, right? And they're thinking like, you know, this is just gravy.
We're, we're [:go to the courts now to pull [:er parents around the world. [:that doesn't even work, and [:So let's coordinate and push back and use every avenue that we have for leverage.
m a lot of them. There's two [:It feels like all of this stuff with the data is very, very well hidden. Like, if you ask… “of course the data is secure!” And, you know, one of the fathers that I spoke to and I interviewed, he had one of those devices and he took it into the school and showed the superintendent of the school the data that was flowing out and they had no idea.
nd ask, is the data, no, no, [:. Might solve some problems, [:rything I have to hide. It's [:It's beyond disrespectful. It's criminal. Stop with all of these things that you were doing because we never said it was okay. The opacity really continues to be a large problem with technology because independent audits are the only way to verify that these tools are actually working. Like you said, the parents are showing them the traffic, and the school administrators are like clutching their pearls.
That [:u're six agreements deep into[:Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
ly what that ecosystem does. [:le's rights and make massive [:They're private held equity companies. That means they no longer have reporting and disclosure requirements to the SEC. And other trading boards so that we would have more information about what they're doing. The opacity is getting worse, so they're like, Let's make the company a black box around a whole suite of tools of black boxes and then nobody will ever get inside.
get inside is through court [:Like if you buy a used car, you're going to look at the tires, maybe look at the engine, whether you know what you're looking at or not. You're going to drive it around. If you're smart, you take it to a mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection before you buy this car. That's just for a couple hundred dollars on a used car.
Why are we not [:was one school where Google [:So. I mean, what do you think is the best way to just, so people, you know, we're not trying to point fingers at people except for the ones that are taking the data, like, how can we move
past this? So, I did talk to the school people. I started by saying, listen, I, I don't want to throw shade at you for things you don't know.
st the right way to approach [:ything I've told you so far. [:your procurement processes. [:[:s right here. Why didn't you [:school administrators signed [:to say, I can't do this for [:rformance they have. The FTC [:can just use this, you know, [:They sold it saying you wouldn't need as much help. They ended up needing more help in the human side which was more expensive just to help their tool which was snake oil. But the regulator stepped in and was like, careful what you claim about what your AI can do, and that company got in trouble. That is a case by case analysis going through the different tools.
Act could do some work here. [:n place? It might be a while.[:But we're working on getting there, so I think all the efforts that we have ongoing with raising awareness, getting parents involved, giving them a voice so that they know how and where to push back. Educating our children to say here's what's happening behind what you see on the screen. So make better choices without clicking I accept if you really don't need to be in there or download another app, just say no.
of times we think as parents [:And I was speaking to a young person just a few hours ago, and she told me, all of you older generations think that we don't care about our privacy, but we do care about our privacy more than you think. So you don't necessarily even have to say, I need to solve this for my kids.
Yeah, I think that's exactly right.
are in bringing everybody on [:apple cart on the sidewalk, [:Everybody's feeling it from you. So, we gotta get people to like, turn around and take off the blinders and see what's happened.
Exactly.
Right?
They're taking the apples and multiplying them.
Yeah. Yeah. Turning it into, you know, all kinds of money for them on the other side. Now, you know, and the schools are not in a position to be throwing money away.
So, [:aren't going to be violated [:better. Because people feel [:Yes.
So, if we speak up, we will make space for those to find their ground and stand with us.
Yes. Perfect. Thank you. That's the perfect way to end. And thank you for explaining all of this in ways that we can all understand, because it's so important. Yeah. Awesome. So we're moving this forward with passion. I got researchers working on multiple projects in multiple continents right now.
gnal has been going nuts for [:We encourage all parents and loved ones to ensure that the digital footprints their children create at school are treated with the respect and care they deserve. If your school or area hasn't yet leaned heavily into technology at school, we hope these stories will help you ask the right questions when they do.
e in any way, please contact [:Digital Dominoes.